AMNA NAWAZ: A task force from the American Bar Association is urging attorneys to defend democracy against authoritarianism in the country.
In a statement, members of the task force urged attorneys to -- quote -- "answer the clarion call to defend America's constitutional democracy and the rule of law" by getting involved in election efforts.
Joining me now to discuss the task force's work are its co-chairs, Jeh Johnson, former secretary of homeland security under President Obama, and J. Michael Luttig, a former appeals court judge and one of the nation's leading conservative legal voices.
We should note, by the way, that our own Judy Woodruff is a member of this task force.
Gentlemen, welcome to you both.
Secretary Johnson, you have likened this effort to doctors on the front lines responding to the deadly COVID-19 pandemic.
Why the urgency behind this call to lawyers?
JEH JOHNSON, Former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security: Democracy is at stake.
We saw in 2016, 2017 how fragile our constitutional norms can be if there are those who are determined to try to push the envelope to the breaking point.
That environment continues.
There is nothing to suggest that the threat stream from the challenges to our democracy have at all dissipated.
Lawyers are uniquely situated, because of our legal training, the oath we take to support and defend the Constitution, and our ability to resolve conflict and mediate conflict.
We're in a unique situation to help voters, to help Americans participate in the democracy, encourage participation in the democracy, and try, most importantly, in my judgment, to turn down the rhetoric, the overheated rhetoric.
We're concerned about the rise of political violence in this country, which is strictly bipartisan.
And the two are related, the rhetoric and the rise in political violence.
So we're issuing this call to lawyers.
We believe the urgency is the same as it was for the medical community during COVID.
AMNA NAWAZ: Judge Luttig, what's your take on this?
Why lawyers in particular?
And what role do you think they can play in, as Secretary Johnson says, defending democracy here?
J. MICHAEL LUTTIG, Former Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Judge: Amna, for reasons that we all know all too well, America's democracy has been teetering on a knife's edge since January 6, 2021.
For the past three-and-a-half years, the former president and now the Republican Party itself have continued to deny January 6, to attempt to justify it, and even to glorify January 6, 2021.
As a consequence of the former president's obsession over January 6 that continues to this day, American democracy has been corrupted.
That's why I believe that this election coming up is a test of America's commitment to its own democracy and to the rule of law.
Lawyers, the 1.3 million lawyers in America, are uniquely qualified and they are uniquely obligated by their professional oath to support and defend America's democracy in this time of need.
The primary tasks between now and Election Day are to ensure the integrity of America's elections in November of 2024.
And part of that, if not the biggest part, is to protect the safety of the election workers across America.
As we all know, in 2016, many of those election workers were threatened, threatened even with their lives.
And, regrettably, those threats continue to this day.
And it's all a consequence of the former president's effort in 2021 to overturn the presidential election.
AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary Johnson, Judge Luttig mentions him here by name, the former President Donald Trump, but he's not mentioned in your report or in the statement accompanying it, nor are any of the attorneys who helped to push that election lie and tried to push cases through the courts that were based on no evidence of any kind of election fraud that includes people like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell and John Eastman, Kenneth Chesebro.
Why not name them if they are behind what you identify as the specific threats here?
JEH JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I give Judge Luttig a lot of credit.
He does call it like he sees it by name.
The ABA is, of course, a nonpartisan organization.
And I know Judge Luttig and I both consider this to be a strictly nonpartisan effort.
There are Republicans and Democrats on our task force.
And the point we keep stressing is that democracy and the rule of law is not a politically partisan issue, nor should it be regarded as such.
And so we want to be able to talk to both Republicans and Democrats in this appeal to stand up for the rule of law and to stand up for democratic principles.
AMNA NAWAZ: Judge Luttig, we have already heard from former President Trump, also from his running mate, Senator Vance, several Republicans as well, a refusal to commit to respecting the results of the 2024 election, saying they will do so only if it's fair, and, essentially, many people believe laying groundwork to challenge the results if they lose.
If they once again move forward with allegations of election fraud that are based on no kind of evidence, what can you and this task force do, if anything?
What are you calling upon lawyers to do in that case?
J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: Amna, as you rightly point out, the peaceful transfer of power in the United States of America and even the commitment of presidential candidates and the two parties are fundamental tenets of this republic.
It is unbelievable that the former president and now the Republican Party refuses to commit to accept the will and the vote of the American people.
That's exactly what led to January 6, 2021.
And as you just pointed out, that is what former president and Republican supporters are promising to do again in November of 2024.
AMNA NAWAZ: And in case that does happen, Judge Luttig, what can the task force do?
Is there anything can to be done at that point?
J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: Well, the task force, of course, is leveraging the 1.3 million lawyers across the country in the 50 states.
And those lawyers within each individual state are preparing for just that kind of effort.
In other words, we will be prepared this year, whereas we were not prepared in 2021.
AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary Johnson, if a similar effort is undertaken by former President Trump, how confident are you that the legal system will hold this time around?
JEH JOHNSON: Well, we're smarter now.
We know that there is gray in our Constitution, in our constitutional framework.
We know that, because of the Electoral College, national elections do dance on the head of a pin.
And we have learned that, at the state level, election officials, state legislatures might try to overturn the will of the voters in their respective states.
And with that learning, with that experience, we're calling on lawyers to focus on that fragile, critical point in our process and be smart, be ready, be educated, be on the alert, be in a position to advise election officials of what the authority is that they have and they don't have.
AMNA NAWAZ: Judge Luttig, what about you?
What's your confidence level that the system will hold?
J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: I don't believe that the system actually held in the last election, Amna.
I am more encouraged that it will hold in this election.
But I don't believe that we are ready for this election yet.
That's why I believe the next several months are absolutely critical if America is going to avoid another January 6.
AMNA NAWAZ: That is retired Judge J. Michael Luttig and former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson joining us tonight.
Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time.
We really appreciate it.
JEH JOHNSON: Thank you.
Thank you.
J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: Thank you, Amna.
