July 31, 2024 - PBS News Hour full episode

GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is away.

On the "News Hour" tonight: A top Hamas leader is assassinated in Iran.

The implications for the war in Gaza and the broader Middle East.

Donald Trump and Kamala Harris try to make inroads with voters in crucial swing states ahead of November's election.

And Judy Woodruff takes a closer look at whether the news media is making political polarization worse.

MARTHA MINOW, Harvard Law School: I think a lot of people now turn to the media to be reinforced in what they believe, rather than to learn something new.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

The top political leader of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, was killed overnight in Tehran just hours after an Israeli airstrike killed one of the top military leaders of Hezbollah and Beirut.

Taken together, after 10 months of war in Gaza, the attacks escalated fears that a simmering regional conflict could explode into a new and more dangerous phase.

Nick Schifrin starts our coverage.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In the hours before his death, Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh met Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's new president, and with Iranian lawmakers pledged the victory he spent his life promising.

It was his final public expression.

Overnight, he and his Iranian bodyguard were killed in what Hamas and Iran described as an Israeli drone strike.

Iran immediately vowed vengeance.

Khamenei posted: "It is our duty to take revenge."

And the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps said Israel will -- quote -- "face a harsh and painful response from the powerful and huge resistance front, especially Islamic Iran."

That threat of regional war was repeated today by Iranian proxies in Yemen, the Houthis, and in Lebanon by Hezbollah and Hamas, which vowed to take the battle with Israel to -- quote -- "new dimensions."

But it was met with defiance by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, Israeli Prime Minister (through translator): We are prepared for any scenario and will stand united and determined against any threat.

Israel will exact a heavy price from any aggression against us on any front.

Never again is now.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) NICK SCHIFRIN: And one week after his address to Congress, Netanyahu today suggested defying the U.S. led to Israel's military successes.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU (through translator): All the achievements that we have made in recent months we achieved because we did not give in, because we made courageous decisions, despite the great pressure at home and abroad.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Israel didn't make any formal statement about Haniyeh today, but Defense Minister Yoav Gallant visited the Arrow missile defense system designed to protect from Iranian missiles.

YOAV GALLANT, Israeli Defense Minister (through translator): Your actions give us the confidence and space to make decisions.

We do not seek war, but we are preparing for all possibilities.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Haniyeh rose through Hamas' ranks and was an early advocate of Hamas' entering politics.

He became Hamas' prime minister after it won 2006 parliamentary elections.

He nurtured Hamas' connection with and support from Iran.

After handing power over to current Hamas leader and October 7 mastermind Yahya Sinwar, he moved to Qatar, where most recently he led Hamas in ongoing cease-fire talks.

Those are hosted by Qatari Prime Minister Sheik Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, who asked today: "How can mediation succeed when one party assassins the negotiator on the other side?"

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: This is something we were not aware of or involved in.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In Asia today, Secretary of State Antony Blinken called cease-fire talks the priority.

ANTONY BLINKEN: The imperative of getting a cease-fire, the importance that has for everyone remains.

And we will continue to labor that for as long as it takes to get there.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin also promised to defend Israel from Iranian and Hezbollah attacks.

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. Secretary of Defense: If Israel is attacked, we certainly will help defend Israel.

You saw us do that in April.

You can expect to see us do that again.

But we don't want to see any of that happen.

We're going to work hard to make sure that we're doing things to help take the temperature down and address issues through diplomatic means.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But across the region, diplomats tell PBS "News Hour" diplomacy feels a long way off.

Hezbollah was already poised to respond to Israel's assassination also yesterday of its most senior military officer, Fuad Shukr.

Hezbollah today confirmed his death and posted new photos of Shukr next to Hezbollah and Iran's most senior officials.

And so the risk tonight is that a war in Gaza the U.S. was already trying to end would instead spread.

For the PBS "News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

GEOFF BENNETT: For more on the killing of the Hamas leader in Iran, we get two views now, Nathan Brown, professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University, and Hanin Ghaddar, the Friedmann senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

That's a think tank.

Thank you both for being with us.

Hanin, I will start with you.

A question about the timing and location coming right after the killing of a top Hezbollah commander in Beirut.

And that this happened in Tehran following the inaugural of Iran's new president, what message does this send to Iran?

HANIN GHADDAR, Washington Institute for Near East Policy: Good evening.

Thank you for having me.

This is basically the main question.

What's happening now?

Like, Israel could have responded with one assassination one attack on Hezbollah after the Majdal Shams incident.

But I think the message with the assassination of Fuad Shukr in Lebanon and the assassination of Haniyeh in Tehran, also at the same time there has been some U.S. strikes in Iraq against the Shia militias, the Iran-backed Shia militias.

According to the Hezbollah perspective, the -- Iran's perspective, what they see is a coordinated attack.

Maybe it's not a coordinated attack, but this could be a message of pushing for deterrence, deterring Iran, not necessarily inviting Iran for a war.

I feel that, today, Hezbollah and the IRGC are facing a catch-22, in the sense that they do not want to reach a full-scale war, because this is not their war and this is not something that they want to go for, but at the same time they have to respond.

They have to walk very thin line in terms of what kind of response they have to achieve.

And they want to move from this episode as fast as possible because they want to avoid the full-scale war at all costs.

But the assassinations of these two senior people, because Fuad Shukr is number two in Hezbollah right after Hassan Nasrallah, this is a big blow.

And they want to stop bleeding all these commanders.

They have lost 400 militants, including high-rank commanders, since October 7, and they cannot afford to continue losing them.

So, if it's done right, if diplomacy steps in today, if it's done right, diplomacy can actually force an agreement and a deterrence for Hezbollah, rather than a full-scale war.

It depends how it goes.

For Hezbollah, they - - I think they're desperate for this to stop.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nathan Brown, what impact does Haniyeh's killing have on Hamas?

Does it degrade their ability to keep fighting in Gaza and in the occupied West Bank?

NATHAN BROWN, Professor of International Affairs, George Washington University: I don't think it does anything with regard to their fighting ability on the ground in Gaza or in the West Bank.

And the important thing to remember about Hamas is, this is an organization.

Haniyeh was extremely prominent.

He will be replaced.

I think what it does do is remove perhaps the figure who was most representative of Hamas, most experienced in politics, one of the most experienced people diplomatically.

So it may set back diplomatic efforts a little bit.

It doesn't change the logic behind the diplomacy, but it does take out one of the very, very key players in the negotiations about a cease-fire.

GEOFF BENNETT: Hanin, when Iran's supreme leader says that "We have a duty to take revenge," what form might that take?

What would that look like?

HANIN GHADDAR: There will be a response, because Israel hit Dahiye, which is the southern suburbs in Beirut.

The last time Israel hit Dahiye, it's when they killed Hamas leader Saleh al-Arouri at the beginning of this conflict.

And they hit Tehran in the middle of -- they went to kill Ismail Haniyeh.

This is -- it's not about the people.

It's only about -- it's also about the location.

The pressure of all these factors will push Iran and Hezbollah to respond.

However, this is not their war.

They both said from the very beginning in all their statements that this is the Palestinian war, it's not our war.

They're there only to support.

So I would imagine the response would be a little bit different from the former responses that we have seen since October 7.

Because Saleh al-Arouri was in charge of Iran's precision-guided missiles program, they might use one of these missiles that they haven't used in the war so far just to send a message saying that we can also cross certain red lines.

They can hit deeper into Israel, avoiding the north and the Golan, which is the usual territory for their bombings.

They can hit definitely some military facilities.

I don't think that they will risk hitting any civilian or residential areas.

They do not want to kill Israeli civilians, because they saw what happened when they killed children and civilians in the Majdal Shams last week.

They will respond, but it will be very limited,it will be very calculated, because they want to respond in a way that Israel can tolerate and move on from, because they want this episode to be over.

I would expect a response that is a little bit different, but not too severe.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nathan Brown, there had been some optimism from the White House that we were in the closing stages of these cease-fire talks.

What happens now, and to what degree to these two killings elevate the prospects of a wider war in the region?

NATHAN BROWN: Well, in terms of the cease-fire, it's not clear that there was a deal to be had.

It's not actually clear at this point that Israel really wants what would be recognizable as a cease-fire, certainly not a sustained one.

It sets those diplomatic efforts back, but it wasn't clear how much traction they would get.

In terms of a wider conflict, I mean, I do basically agree that what you have is an odd that situation in which the various actors, Israel on the one hand, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, really talking in very, very tough, almost existential terms about the nature of the other side being an enemy, and yet they're fairly calculated in what they do.

And so the risk of a regional war, of this broadening, is very, very real.

But up until this point, throughout almost 10 months of war, mutual deterrence has worked to keep Israel from attacking Hezbollah and Lebanon more broadly, a full-scale war, or that kind of response.

Whether that can continue or not is unclear.

But I would agree that the pattern of the last 10 months is to -- is both sides do things that will -- that really strike out at the other side, but are calculated to stop just short of sparking a full-scale conflict.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nathan Brown and Hanin Ghaddar, thank you both for your insights.

We appreciate it.

HANIN GHADDAR: Thank you.

NATHAN BROWN: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Israeli airstrike on a senior Hezbollah leader yesterday came after 10 months of low-level conflict between the militants and Israel.

For insights into Hezbollah's military and political influence, special correspondent Simona Foltyn recently traveled to its southern Beirut stronghold, beginning at the funeral of another Hezbollah commander assassinated by Israeli forces.

SIMONA FOLTYN: Even without an invasion, Hezbollah and Israel are already at war.

Hezbollah has buried some 350 operatives since October.

That's more than in 2006, when Israel last invaded.

The death toll includes senior commanders like Mohammad Nasser, who was killed in an Israeli drone strike at the beginning of July.

SHEIKH ADBALLAH, Hezbollah Supporter: He is the one of the icons of the resistance.

SIMONA FOLTYN: The funeral is in Dahiye, Hezbollah's Southern Beirut stronghold.

Sheikh Adballah is a Hezbollah supporter and didn't want to give his full name.

What kind of impact do you think an assassination of such a senior commander has on the organization of Hezbollah?

SHEIKH ADBALLAH: It's not going to change anything.

Those people, they believe that martyrdom is the way of the life.

He died as a martyr, so he's still alive.

And his blood is going to awaken all the people to see whatever the oppression is happening on Gaza, on Palestine, because the people there are suffering.

Families has been wiped out.

Children have been killed, parts and pieces of humans in front of our TVs, and nobody's moving, nobody's saying anything.

SIMONA FOLTYN: It was Hezbollah that started this round of fighting to show support for its ally Hamas.

And it will only stop when there's a cease-fire in Gaza.

These targeted assassinations have not deterred Hezbollah, nor do they seem to have impeded its ability to carry out operations.

Quite to the contrary, each strike prompts a counterstrike.

And it's this gradual escalation that risks pushing the two sides to all-out war.

To discuss the conflict, I sat down with Ibrahim Moussawi, a member of Parliament for Hezbollah's political wing.

There is concern in the region and internationally that Lebanon and Israel could slide into another all-out war.

How likely do you think it is at this stage?

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI, Lebanese Parliament Member: The possibility is always there.

I don't want to say that -- deny that there is a possibility to happen.

Maybe Netanyahu himself wants this, because he wants to drag the Americans to the Middle East, a quagmire.

But I believe the Israeli military is not ready for that.

The international community, the United States does not want that.

And we don't want an all-out war from our side.

SIMONA FOLTYN: At the same time, there's no viable path to peace.

While Hezbollah insists on a cease-fire in Gaza, Israel wants a buffer zone on its northern border.

President Biden's envoy, Amos Hochstein, has tried to bridge the divide and broker a deal as part of which Hezbollah would pull back from the border.

Under what conditions would Hezbollah accept such a proposal?

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI: It's -- first of all, the United States is not an honest broker or mediator, to suggest the American administration is a full partner with the -- all of the genocide that is taking place in Gaza and with all of the aggressions that are taking place in Lebanon.

We still have lands that are occupied by the Israelis.

It's the same cause, it's the same enemy, it's the same occupation and the same hostilities.

The first thing that should happen, they should make a cease-fire, they should stop the Israeli killing machine.

And after that, when the cease-fire is enacted there, it will be enacted here.

SIMONA FOLTYN: Hezbollah knows Lebanon cannot afford all-out war.

The country has been crippled by an economic and financial crisis for years, with many Lebanese already struggling to make ends meet.

You're a Lebanese group.

Your responsibility is primarily to the Lebanese people.

And there are many Lebanese who believe that this is not Lebanon's war, that Lebanon has plenty of other problems.

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI: The majority of the Lebanese, they support.

What we're doing now is a defensive war against the Israeli aggression, as part of our land is under occupation.

And when we come to defend ourselves, they want to hold us responsible and to make the calculations.

If the international community addressed this properly, you wouldn't have seen any kind of resistance.

SIMONA FOLTYN: A cease-fire in Gaza could provide an off-ramp, but it wouldn't address the roots of this long-running conflict.

The border between Lebanon and Israel was never demarcated.Both sides lay claim to 14 disputed areas.

This latest war has further deepened animosities.

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI: But we do not recognize Israel.

When you say Israel, Israel is an occupying force.

It is a kind of a cancerous existence that has been installed into the body of the region.

We will never recognize Israel as a normal entity here.

We are in a war of liberation to our land.

The Palestinians is in a war of liberation to their land.

And this is something that will continue as long as this occupation, as long as the hostility continues.

SIMONA FOLTYN: Previous attempts to mend the rifts have failed.

According to a 2006 U.N. resolution, Hezbollah was to hand over border security to the Lebanese army, which was never implemented.

Would you agree with me that Hezbollah has not complied with Resolution 1701?

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI: We believe we have complied with everything that would respect our sovereignty, that would defend our people, that would keep our land intact.

SIMONA FOLTYN: Hezbollah is deeply embedded in Lebanon's south.

Moussawi says that international calls to remove its fighters are implausible.

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI: The Hezbollah fighters are the sons of the families that are living there in the villages.

You see?

So, if there hadn't been an attack or hostility, you wouldn't have seen the sons and the fathers and the brothers coming to fight the occupation.

SIMONA FOLTYN: And it's the people of the south who are once again bearing the brunt.

All along the border, villages have been laid to waste.

Now, some observers are saying that, once there is a cease-fire in Gaza, Israel will have sufficient capacity to then turn its attention to Lebanon.

So what will be Hezbollah's response if the strikes from Lebanon continue?

IBRAHIM MOUSSAWI: In Arabic (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

They are welcome and they can try it.

We are ready, more than enough, to deal them devastating blows.

They are not going to be able to destroy or do anything to us without having a reprisal and a retaliation that is not equal.

It could be about force.

SIMONA FOLTYN: Neither side may want all-out war, but that's where the path could lead if a political solution remains elusive.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Simona Foltyn in Beirut.

GEOFF BENNETT: Guilty pleas stemming from the September 11 terrorist attacks lead our other headlines.

Defense Department officials say Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and two of his accomplices have agreed to plead guilty to charges related to the deaths of nearly 3,000 people.

The men have been in U.S. custody in Guantanamo Bay for more than two decades.

They are expected to enter their pleas as soon as next week.

In Colorado, authorities say one person has been killed in a wildfire north of the town of Lyons.

The Stone Canyon Fire erupted yesterday afternoon.

Earlier today, it was listed as zero percent contained as 150 firefighters battled the blaze.

To the north, the larger Alexander Mountain Fire is also spreading.

They're among the nearly 100 large fires burning across the Western U.S.

Meantime, in California, some people return to their scorched communities after the massive Park Fire barrelled through.

That includes the town of Cohasset, which is now unrecognizable.

DAN COLLINS, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection: This community is going to need a lot of support and a lot of aid.

There are people that live up here with little to no means and they just lost kind of everything that they own or everything that they ever had.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the Northeast, it's a very different picture.

More storms are in the forecast in Northern Vermont as residents clean up the mess left by debilitating rain and flooding.

The state's governor said today that crews are still rebuilding after severe flooding hit earlier this month.

GOV.

PHIL SCOTT (R-VT): Seeing all the progress they have made since the flooding three weeks ago being washed away again, it probably feels much worse than a punch or a kick.

It's simply demoralizing.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, in Georgia, one man is dead after a tree fell in his car during a round of severe thunderstorms last night.

They also caused damage in South Carolina and left hundreds of thousands without electricity, though power has since been restored.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has asked his country's Supreme Court to audit the results of Sunday's contested presidential election.

But international observers condemn the audit, saying the top court wouldn't be impartial.

Meantime, even Maduro's allies are calling for more transparency.

President Gustavo Petro of neighboring Colombia called on the in battle leader to prove his reelection victory by releasing detailed vote counts.

And Brazilian President Lula da Silva has called for the same.

U.S. officials today echoed that view with increasing frustration.

JOHN KIRBY, NSC Coordinator For Strategic Communications: Our patience and that of the international community is running out.

It's running out on waiting for the Venezuelan electoral authorities to come clean, release the full detailed data on this election, so that everyone can see the results.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, federal officials have arrested a former us Green Beret over a failed plot back in 2020 to remove president Nicolas Maduro.

An indictment unsealed this week in Tampa, Florida, accuses Jordan Goudreau of 14 counts related to violating arms control laws, smuggling and conspiracy.

Goudreau said at the time that he and others were acting to protect Venezuela's democracy.

The Biden administration announced a series of proposals today aimed at pushing Congress to do more to stop the flow of illicit fentanyl from Mexico.

They include legislation to create a national pill press registry.

That's to track machines that could make the pills.

Classifying fentanyl as a Schedule I drug, which would increase penalties for traffickers, and tightening rules on small packages coming into the U.S. That would close a loophole often used to import the substances used to make illicit fentanyl.

Fentanyl overdoses are a leading cause of death for Americans age 18 to 45.

In South Carolina, death by firing squad is now a legal method of execution after the state Supreme Court ruled it's not considered cruel and unusual punishment.

The ruling allows inmates to choose between that and the electric chair as alternatives to lethal injection.

South Carolina has executed 43 inmates since 1976, when the death penalty was legalized under federal law.

But the state hasn't carried out an execution since 2011 and the state's supplies of drugs for lethal injection have expired; 32 inmates are currently on South Carolina's death row.

The Federal Reserve held steady on interest rates today, as expected, but noted that there has been further progress on tackling inflation.

The Central Bank added that, if prices continue to cool, an interest rate cut -- quote -- "could be on the table at its September meeting."

But Chair Jerome Powell noted that nothing is guaranteed.

JEROME POWELL, Federal Reserve Chairman: Certainty is not a word that we have in our business.

So we get a lot of data between now and September, and it isn't going to be one data read or even two.

It's going to be the totality of the data, all of the data, and not just the -- and then how is that affecting the outlook and how is it affecting the balance of risks?

That's going to be the assessment that we do.

GEOFF BENNETT: Powell also said that maintaining a solid labor market will be part of the Fed's considerations when it comes to any action interest rates.

The next U.S. jobs report is due out on Friday.

Wall Street, meantime, welcomed those signals that a rate cut could be coming soon.

The Dow Jones industrial average added nearly 100 points, inching closer to that 41000-point level.

The Nasdaq jumped more than 450 points, as big technology stocks surged.

And the S&P 500 enjoyed its best day in five months.

Still to come on the "News Hour": how the news Americans consume is contributing to political divides; and the latest on the athletes going for the gold at the Paris Olympics.

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and his new Democratic opponent, Vice President Kamala Harris, are sharpening their attacks as they make their case directly to voters.

But, as Lisa Desjardins reports, some of Mr. Trump's comments on the campaign trail today are drawing new criticism.

LISA DESJARDINS: In Chicago, a first for former President Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: I love the Black population of this country.

LISA DESJARDINS: The Republican sat down for an interview at the National Association of Black Journalists' convention, and it quickly turned combative with ABC's Rachel Scott.

DONALD TRUMP: I don't think I have ever been asked a question so -- in such a horrible manner, a first question.

(LAUGHTER) LISA DESJARDINS: She asked Trump about other Republicans who called Vice President Kamala Harris a DEI or diversity pick.

Trump didn't answer directly, but instead said: DONALD TRUMP: I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago, when she happened to turn Black, and now she wants to be known as Black.

(LAUGHTER) DONALD TRUMP: So, I don't know, is she Indian or is she Black?

LISA DESJARDINS: Harris has never shied away from her Black and South Asian heritage.

She attended Howard University, one of the nation's leading historically Black colleges.

Trump was later asked about remarks from his vice presidential candidate, J.D.

Vance, who in 2021 blasted some single women as childless cat ladies and suggested Americans with children should get more votes.

Trump explained it this way: DONALD TRUMP: My interpretation is, he's strongly family-oriented, but that doesn't mean, if you don't have a family, there's something wrong with it.

LISA DESJARDINS: Later, the topic was January 6.

And given the assaults, some of them brutal, on 140 police officers that day, Trump was asked if he still would pardon those responsible.

DONALD TRUMP: If they're innocent, I would pardon them.

QUESTION: They have been convicted.

(LAUGHTER) DONALD TRUMP: And, by the way, the Supreme Court just under... (LAUGHTER) DONALD TRUMP: Well, they were convicted by a very -- a very tough system.

LISA DESJARDINS: An aide with the Harris campaign wrote on social media that the appearance was -- quote -- "an absolute disaster."

The interview had already been controversial with journalists in the association, given Trump's attacks on the press and with Black reporters in the past.

Karen Attiah, a Washington post columnist, stepped down as co-chair of the NABJ convention in part over this, posting on X that she was not informed of the decision to interview Trump.

Vice President Harris isn't expected at the journalists' convention, but is in talks to speak to NABJ members in September.

But at a rally in Atlanta last night, she called out Trump by name after he backed away from a scheduled debate.

KAMALA HARRIS, Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate: As the saying goes, if you got something to say, say it to my face.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) LISA DESJARDINS: The Harris rally had plenty of star power, including a performance from rapper Megan Thee Stallion.

Harris took aim at Trump and the conservative Project 2025.

KAMALA HARRIS: Just look at his Project 2025 agenda.

(BOOING) KAMALA HARRIS: I take it you have seen it.

LISA DESJARDINS: This after the head of Project 2025, working with the conservative Heritage Foundation, stepped down yesterday amid criticism and calls from the Trump campaign for it to end.

Heritage says the work started by Project 2025 and the dozens of former Trump administration officials who shaped it will continue.

But, in Atlanta, Harris deployed another rhetorical weapon, a new adjective hurled at the Trump campaign more and more in recent days.

KAMALA HARRIS: And, by the way, don't you find some of their stuff to just be plain weird?

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) LISA DESJARDINS: Across the country, in Nevada, last night, Trump's V.P.

candidate, Vance, tried out a counterresponse.

SEN. J.D.

VANCE (R-OH), Vice Presidential Candidate: We don't want a wacky San Francisco liberal serving as commander in chief.

We don't want Kamala Harris.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) LISA DESJARDINS: As voters think about both campaigns, Harris has virtually sewn up the Democratic nomination.

The party announced last night she is the only candidate who qualified to compete for the nomination.

That vote will be virtual starting tomorrow and ending Monday.

Both parties and campaigns are heating up, with Trump in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, tonight.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Lisa Desjardins.

GEOFF BENNETT: And joining us now from former President Trump's rally in Harrisburg is Laura Barron-Lopez.

Laura, thanks so much for being with us.

And, look, as we saw, Donald Trump started his day in Chicago for what was an at times tense Q&A at the National Association of Black Journalists convention.

How is his campaign responding to the criticism he's now facing for his comments about Vice President Harris' racial identity?

And what did his comments reveal about how he is approaching running against Harris, instead of President Biden?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Geoff, former President Donald Trump, as well as his campaign, are defending themselves and their - - the way he is going after Kamala Harris, despite the fact that some Republicans in his party think that they should refrain from talking about her race and refrain from attacks calling her a DEI hire.

But, largely, Geoff, Trump's campaign has not changed its strategy when it comes to its attacks on Kamala Harris.

They are using a lot of the same attacks that they would use on President Joe Biden, namely attacking her on her immigration record, as well as on inflation.

One big difference, though, is that they are -- Donald Trump is trying to define Kamala Harris as being much more to the left of Joe Biden on issues like climate and guns.

But I talked to two Republican sources today, Geoff, one who is close to Trump's world who said that he believes that the campaign is still struggling to figure out how to undercut the momentum that Kamala Harris has right now.

And another GOP strategist in a swing state told me that they think that the campaign has not found their footing against Harris and that strategist admitted that it really feels like Obama-level enthusiasm for Harris right now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Hmm.

Well, this is Donald Trump's first rally back in Pennsylvania after that assassination attempt.

You have been talking to his supporters today.

What have they told you?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Multiple voters that I saw spoke to here, Geoff, said that they wanted to be here because of the fact that it was his first rally here since the assassination attempt.

And like a number of Trump allies and some Republican lawmakers, the voters that I spoke to here echoed conspiracy theories about the assassination attempt, including two voters that I spoke to from nearby Pennsylvania counties.

BARBARA BARTHOLOMEW, Trump Supporter: It was all rigged.

I can't understand how the Secret Service left all that evidence slide by them.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Rigged by whom?

BARBARA BARTHOLOMEW: I think it was rigged by the Democrats.

THOMAS COWAN, Trump Supporter: I really, firmly believe -- I'm not a conspiracy person at all, but I believe the Secret Service is covering up a lot of stuff and, I think somebody should come and pay the price.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: We heard a lot of that from voters here, Geoff.

We also heard -- voters also told me that they believed the lie from Donald Trump that 2024, in addition to 2020, is going to be a rigged election.

And when it comes to the policy issues, a number of them said that border security, immigration, as well as the economy are their main issues.

And when I asked them about Vice President Kamala Harris becoming the likely Democratic nominee, they said that they didn't think Harris would be harder for Donald Trump to beat than Joe Biden, and they weren't necessarily concerned about her becoming the Democratic nominee.

GEOFF BENNETT: Laura, what about Donald Trump's running mate, J.D.

Vance?

How were his supporters, at least those folks in Pennsylvania, in Harrisburg, that you spoke to today, how are they responding to that?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, despite the fact that J.D.

Vance has been criticized lately and Democrats have been attacking him specifically about his comments about the government being run by childless women and questioning whether people who don't have children actually have a stake in the future of the country, a lot of the voters here either said that they didn't know much about J.D.

Vance, that the jury was still out.

And others said that they were - - like this voter from New York, said that they were looking to trust Donald Trump on his pick.

DAWN LUCHMEE, Trump Supporter: I didn't know too much about J.D.

Vance.

I'm doing my research.

I don't take anybody for face value anymore.

There's a lot of RINOs out there.

And I'm just hoping that President Trump is working from a higher place, and he picked the best man for the job.

And, like I said, the verdict is still out, as far as I'm concerned.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: So, a lot of the voters here didn't necessarily think that J.D.

Vance was the drag on the ticket, but that GOP source that I spoke to earlier, Geoff, did say, and other Republican sources that I have talked to, think that J.D.

Vance could ultimately harm Donald Trump.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, Laura, Donald Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025.

This is this blueprint for a second Trump term.

The architect of that proposal, a guy named Paul Dans, he was reportedly pushed out of the conservative Heritage Foundation by the Trump team.

Bring us up to speed and give us a reality check here.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Donald Trump's campaign yesterday, Geoff, said that -- claimed again that they have nothing to do with Project 2025, and they said that Project 2025's demise would be -- quote -- "greatly welcomed."

But Project 2025 isn't going anywhere, Geoff.

And Heritage Foundation's Kevin Roberts issued a statement saying that - - quote -- "Project 2025 was built for any future administration to use.

Project 2025 will continue our efforts to build a personnel apparatus for policymakers of all levels, federal, state, and local."

And that last part there is key, Geoff, because a lot of the leaders that were in charge of crafting Project 2025, including Paul Dans, said over and over again that this blueprint was created so, that way, conservative warriors could then be ready to enter into a second Trump administration.

And a lot of the people that authored Project 2025 worked in Donald Trump's administration, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: Laura Barron-Lopez covering a Trump rally in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, tonight.

Laura, thanks so much.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Despite having access to more information than ever before, Americans' trust in the news media has been declining in recent years, and nearly three-quarters of Americans say the news media is making political polarization worse.

Judy Woodruff investigates as part of her ongoing series, America at a Crossroads.

JERI LEVASSEUR, Retired Nurse: So, I listen to FOX News.

I listen to Newsmax.

I will go to CNN to see what they're saying.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Jeri Levasseur is a Republican committeewoman in Haverhill, Massachusetts.

JERI LEVASSEUR: Do we want to do heavy traffic time, like 4:00 to 7:00 again?

Or do you... (CROSSTALK) JERI LEVASSEUR: OK. JUDY WOODRUFF: On a hot evening this July, she and a handful of fellow Republicans were working on their plans to show support for former President Trump, while FOX News played in the background.

MAN: Attempt to enforce their vision for America, but it is not based off meritocracy.

It's based off racism, quite frankly, and its based off neo-Marxism.

JERI LEVASSEUR: I think that President Trump gets a -- not that FOX is pro-Trump, but I think he gets a better interpretation of his values and what he stands for from FOX.

MSNBC is much more likely to insult Republicans, as opposed to insulting a Democrat.

ELIE MYSTAL, Justice Correspondent, "The Nation": The Supreme Court is a clear and present danger to their entire political agenda.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Across town, Demet Haksever who immigrated to the United States from Turkey in 1975, is watching MSNBC.

DEMET HAKSEVER, Retired Economist: In the morning, I start watching MSNBC, "Morning Joe," CNN, sometimes PBS, other sources, BBC.

And, at night, I tune in to MSNBC.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Haksever is a retired economist who's now involved with Indivisible, a grassroots political group dedicated to opposing the Republican Party.

And why do you prefer MSNBC, you say?

DEMET HAKSEVER: Well, I like that their focus on the issues that are important to me.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What about FOX?

DEMET HAKSEVER: Oh, FOX, no.

I gave up on FOX a long time ago.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Haksever and Levasseur are not unique.

A 2023 survey by the Associated Press found that 26 percent of Democrats and 60 percent of Republicans have little to no trust in the news media.

And research by YouGov in 2024 showed Democrats were more likely to trust a wider range of sources than Republicans, who were far more inclined, like Levasseur, to primarily trust FOX and Newsmax.

MARTHA MINOW, Harvard Law School: The national news is more polarized certainly on broadcast and cable, and it is much less reportage and much more opinion.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Martha Minow is a professor and former dean of Harvard Law School, whose book "Saving the News" looks at how the news media has been transformed under declining government regulation and increasing economic and political pressure.

MARTHA MINOW: Political parties funded newspapers in the 1840s, '50s, '60s.

The journalism that developed in the 1880s into the golden age of the 1960s was the first time that objectivity was elevated as an ideal, that really recognized we need multiple sources, we need to be more transparent, we need to actually document, we need to have a counterpoint.

ANNOUNCER: Here is a bulletin from CBS News.

JUDY WOODRUFF: That also just happened to be good business, to advertise to the most people, which paid for publication.

Newspapers and broadcasters had an incentive to aim for objectivity.

WALTER CRONKITE, Former CBS News Anchor: This picture has just been transmitted by wire.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In the 1950s, '60s and '70s, television news reporting was primarily limited to the three major networks, CBS, ABC, and NBC.

With only a handful of channels available for broadcast, the government issued licenses to the networks and also put regulations in place to ensure fair treatment in their coverage, Like the Fairness Doctrine enacted in 1949.

MARTHA MINOW: The Fairness Doctrine was part of the entrance of the federal government in the regulation of access to the airwaves for television, radio.

You have to have balance.

And if there is a presentation on one point of view, you have to have a contrary point of view.

If a public official were attacked, they had a right to reply.

DAVID WALKER, CNN: Good evening.

I'm David Walker.

LOIS HART, CNN: And I'm Lois Hart.

Now here's the news.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But as cable TV grew in popularity and dozens of new channels came on air, all viewers had to do to get a contrary point of view was contrary point of view was change the channel, in theory.

So, the Fairness Doctrine was phased out by President Ronald Reagan's FCC in 1987, setting the stage for a radical transformation in the way Americans got their news.

MARTHA MINOW: I think a lot of people now turn to the media to be reinforced in what they believe, rather than to learn something new.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Minow says cable networks like MSNBC, FOX News and others now pursue smaller audiences on the left or the right, sometimes called narrowcasting, by leaning into opinion coverage that those viewers will agree with.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX News Anchor: Kamala Harris has a horrific track record, even worse public persona.

JEN PSAKI, MSNBC Host: She has different superpowers and different areas she will need to work on to appeal to voters than President Biden.

MARTHA MINOW: Opinion media is more successful than news media, than journalism.

I think it's related to this lack of curiosity, people looking to be reinforced.

Also, it's more expensive -- you know this -- it's more expensive to actually interview people, to look at documents, to actually explore without knowing ahead of time, what is your story?

Being able to convert a story into something that's very simple, digestible, and maybe even outraging is more successful.

It attracts attention.

It's what people talk about.

ERIC SHAWN, FOX News Senior Correspondent: Breaking just now, an illegal immigrant from Ecuador arrested, apprehended, under arrest, suspected of sexually assaulting, as you said, a teenage girl in a New York City park.

JERI LEVASSEUR: Recently, there was a 13-year-old girl in New York that's been raped by an illegal that's crossed into this country.

He tied up the little boy that was with her, gagged them, and nothing comes out of the White House about how horrible this is.

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC Host: According to new analysis from NBC News -- quote -- "Despite several horrifying high-profile incidents, there is no evidence of a migrant-driven crime wave in the United States."

In fact... DEMET HAKSEVER: They are just cherry-picking a couple of terrible crimes by immigrants, but they don't mention ever the positive contributions of the immigrants to our communities, to this country.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But is partisan news media in fact creating more division in the country, or are partisan viewers now finding their way to more friendly outlets?

MATTHEW LEVENDUSKY, University of Pennsylvania: So, I have been focused on polarization almost my whole career.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Professor Matthew Levendusky is a political scientist at the University of Pennsylvania.

His research shows that watching certain channels does have an impact on viewers' political opinions.

MATTHEW LEVENDUSKY: We showed people the Kind of FOX coverage, the MSNBC coverage, or the mainstream news coverage, and what we found was that people tended to move in the direction of the source, right, especially if it was a source that was congenial to them.

JUDY WOODRUFF: How do you see the role of the news media and any bias or slant in the news media in affecting the way most people think about issues?

MATTHEW LEVENDUSKY: Well, there's certainly an effect.

I think people who are actively involved in politics tend to be quite polarized, but the country as a whole still has room to come together and find common ground.

But the factor working against that is that politicians often have an incentive to divide people.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Levendusky says both the news media and political leaders, who are often recruited from the political extremes during primaries, have played a role in deepening our divisions.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: Venezuela is releasing thousands of people, criminals, gang members, drug dealers, the worst.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): They are trying to control women's bodies quite explicitly.

MATTHEW LEVENDUSKY: If you look at studies about the kinds of people that run for Congress, they're increasingly being drawn from people who are more on the extremes, rather than the middle, because the people who are in the middle sort of look out at Congress and they say, where am I going to fit in?

So It's pushing people and kind of stretching them out a little bit more towards the extremes.

JERI LEVASSEUR: Well, the thing is, early voting starts in September.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Jeri Levasseur has felt the impact of this growing polarization in her own community and even her own family.

JERI LEVASSEUR: I do have a brother who is very liberal.

So we just don't talk politics at all ever.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And what about where they get their news?

JERI LEVASSEUR: They would never watch FOX or Newsmax or -- it's MSNBC.

DEMET HAKSEVER: Right, this is how we make it in Turkey actually.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But 10 minutes down the road, Demet Haksever sees an even greater threat in the coverage coming from FOX, especially its promotion of conspiracy theories about the 2020 presidential election.

DEMET HAKSEVER: The disinformation, they spread it about the validity of the election results 2020.

It poses a great risk to our democracy.

I come from Turkey, and we lost our democracy because of the same divisions.

JUDY WOODRUFF: What happens to a democracy in a situation like that?

DEMET HAKSEVER: Well, democracy dies in that case.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Harvard's Martha Minow says there is no easy solution to this problem.

More nonprofit media, funding local journalism, and fighting disinformation could all help.

But she remains deeply concerned about how these divisions are affecting our communities.

MARTHA MINOW: The lack of a shared reality is a crisis in America right now.

And you can see this.

Depending on what your preferences are, you flip channels or whatever, you see it's different topics, and when it's the same topic, there's no relationship.

And if you don't share a reality, and indeed you think the people next to you are out to get you, it's not just democracy that's at risk.

It's peaceful coexistence.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In an upcoming installment of America at a Crossroads, we will look at how the Internet and social media have only accelerated this concerning trend.

For the PBS "News Hour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Haverhill, Massachusetts.

GEOFF BENNETT: At the Paris Olympics, swimming star Katie Ledecky cruised to gold in the 1,500-meter race today.

The 27-year-old American finished nearly half-a-pool-length ahead of her competitors.

As Ledecky dominated the pool, others swam in the Seine.

Triathletes took their first plunge into the river following days of concerns about water quality.

Meantime, Coco Gauff's Olympics were cut short.

The Team USA flag-bearer lost two doubles matches today.

Overall, though, the U.S. remains on top of the total medal count, with 30 overall.

France and China are second and third.

It all comes as the U.S. gymnastics team celebrate their historic performances yesterday and get ready for their individual finals still to come.

For more, I spoke earlier with USA Today's Christine Brennan.

Christine Brennan, welcome back to the "News Hour."

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, USA Today: It's great to be with you, Geoff.

Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: So let's start with the U.S. women's gymnastics team, because they have named themselves the Golden Girls.

This is the oldest U.S. women's team since 1952, and they're still winning gold.

They finished nearly six points ahead of the silver medal winners, Italy, with Brazil grabbing the bronze.

What does that say about the changing nature of the sport and its athletes?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN: Geoff, this has been a national conversation, a cultural conversation in the U.S. about how we look at young women, body image, the issue of eating disorders, anorexia.

These are conversations that we have had at the very top elite level of sport, but we have also had those conversations in our kitchens with our daughters and nieces and granddaughters and just having much more awareness, frankly, of those issues over the last, say, 10 or 15 years.

And look at the result, a team that America cares and the world cares so much about, led by the great Simone Biles, the gymnastics team.

We were so used to seeing them look so thin.

We'd hear about the injuries, the horrors, of course, of the -- Larry Nassar, the sexual assault scandal, the worst sex abuse scandal in sports history, including Simone Biles, a survivor in that from those horrors.

We have dealt with all of this, and look at the result now.

You have got these women, as you said, the Golden Girls, perfect name for them, in their 20s.

Simone Biles is 27.

This is an age that would never have been on the radar screen 20 years ago in gymnastics.

And yet here we are now.

So not only are they the greatest in the world athletically, but they truly are a symbol of what we have been discussing as a nation in terms of how we look at women and young girls.

GEOFF BENNETT: The men's gymnastics team also made history this past week in a different way.

That team earned bronze, making it the first time in 16 years the U.S. men's team finished on the podium in Olympic competition.

You have also got Stephen Nedoroscik, the -- America's pommel horse hero.

How big a moment is this for the men's gymnastics team?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN: Oh, it's fantastic and it's terrific.

And Nedoroscik, my goodness, the Clark Kent, right, with his glasses on, the memes and the photos that have gone viral of him waiting for his moment, picked just for the one event, the pommel horse.

He goes out there and he nails it and he then, of course, ensures the bronze medal for the U.S. men, extraordinary moment.

And these are the moments, Geoff, that really, I think, attract people to the Olympic Games even after the competition, after someone has finished competing.

So here he is now.

He has entered everyone's home or on our devices on social media.

You have seen him.

You know him.

You want to find out a little bit more about him.

And he's the one that is going through and doing the Rubik's Cube in, like, 15, 20 seconds.

And he's online now showing those videos.

So I love that for him and the entire team, so deserving of the accolades after all of these years where the men have just been completely out of the headlines.

GEOFF BENNETT: We're also paying close attention to American swimmer Katie Ledecky, who continues to make waves.

She almost lapped her competition in the 1,500-meter race.

Talk to us about her goal of becoming the swimmer with the most medals.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN: Katie Ledecky is already seen as the greatest female swimmer ever.

And only Michael Phelps, in terms of just dominance and being decorated with so many medals, only Michael Phelps is bigger than that.

The longer she swims, the better it is for her.

And the 1,500 is the longest.

And she has just once again shown that she is just the greatest in the endurance races, the 1,500.

The 800 comes later in the week.

And it's just a delight to watch her, of course, and not only is a great role model, but, again, such a great swimmer.

There are seven other swimmers, and you don't see any of them because Katie's so far ahead of everyone else.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Christine, let's talk about the U.S. women's rugby team, which dramatically grabbed the bronze medal.

What should we know about that team and their monumental win?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN: You know, this is fun.

This is what the Olympics really is all about.

I mean, I'm over here and I'm not covering rugby, but I have had so many friends and family say, what about the rugby team?

And their incredible victory to -- over Australia to -- at the very last seconds -- if people haven't seen it, go and watch it, a 90-yard run in the very last seconds for the United States to snatch the bronze medal away from Australia and win it themselves.

And this is a team that has been all over social media.

And what's really fun about that, and I think it's informative and in many ways kind of groundbreaking, is that 15, 20 years ago, whatever, we didn't have social media, that, when the Olympics ended, most of these athletes went away.

Well, now with social media, and these women are rock stars, and they have got, in some cases, just hundreds of thousands of followers, and their story now can continue, and their brand -- they can sell their brand themselves, and they can continue to be a part of American consciousness.

We know that the Olympic Games is very much alluring to those of us who you don't see these sports very often.

And so once every four years, you tune in, and you're enchanted and delighted.

GEOFF BENNETT: Sportswriter and columnist for USA Today Christine Brennan.

Christine, thanks so much.

CHRISTINE BRENNAN: Thank you, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: And we have more coverage of the Olympics online, including a look at Team Palestine that's competing in the Games.

That's on our Instagram page.

And that is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

On behalf of the entire PBS "News Hour" team, thanks for joining us.