August 13, 2024 - PBS News Hour full episode

GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On the "News Hour" tonight: Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Walz hits the campaign trail solo to rally union members, while former President Donald Trump sits for an interview with his billionaire backer Elon Musk.

GEOFF BENNETT: Venezuela's opposition leader on her country's disputed elections and her call for global protests against the government of Nicolas Maduro.

MARIA CORINA MACHADO, Venezuela Opposition Leader: This is not sustainable.

We will not surrender.

We will not give up.

AMNA NAWAZ: And the impact of a Supreme Court ruling making it easier to carry guns in New York City.

AMNA NAWAZ: Welcome to the "News Hour."

The 2024 campaign is in full swing, with Vice President Kamala Harris' running mate, Tim Walz, hitting the trail on his own for the first time.

GEOFF BENNETT: It comes a day after former President Donald Trump's two-hour livestream with Elon Musk on X, formerly Twitter.

But what was billed as a triumphant return to that social media platform was fraught with tech troubles.

Laura Barron-Lopez starts our coverage.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Minnesota Governor Tim Walz in Los Angeles, California, today, stop number one of a five-state dash that has the V.P.

pick flying solo for the first time.

GOV.

TIM WALZ (D-MN), Vice Presidential Candidate: We can't hope that we defeat Donald Trump.

We can't hope that we can collectively bargain.

We can't hope we protect Social Security.

We can't hope that we address climate change.

You don't hope to win.

You plan, prepare and work to win.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: He addressed the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees at its annual convention, the largest trade union representing the public sector in the U.S., and it already endorsed the Harris/Walz ticket.

GOV.

TIM WALZ: We know exactly who built this country.

It was nurses, it was teachers, and it was state and local government employees that built this nation.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE) GOV.

TIM WALZ: People in this room built the middle class.

Thank you, AFSCME.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Walz will spend the coming days fund-raising across the country, a level of campaigning relatively new for the former teacher and coach.

Meanwhile, for Trump... DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: Biden actually did something that was impossible.

Both sides hate him.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: ... a return to X, the social media platform previously known as Twitter, that banned him after the January 6 insurrection because of the risk of further incitement of violence.

The site's current owner, Elon Musk, who endorsed Trump last month, hosting the former president last night for a high-profile interview.

ELON MUSK, Owner, X: My apologies for the late start.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: But it was plagued with glitches.

Musk, without evidence, blamed a nearly 40-minute delay on a distributed denial of service attack.

Once the stream finally got going, Trump got rambling.

He again praised modern dictators.

DONALD TRUMP: Elon, I know every one of them.

And I know them well.

I know Putin.

I know President Xi.

I know Kim Jong-un of North Korea.

I know every one of them.

They're at the top of their game.

They're tough.

They're smart.

They're vicious.

And they're going to protect their country.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: In stark contrast to Walz's appeal to workers, Trump applauded Musk, who is also the CEO of Tesla, for firing his employees who went on strike.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, you, you're the greatest cutter.

I mean, I look at what you do.

You walk in and you just say, you want to quit?

(LAUGHTER) ELON MUSK: Yes.

DONALD TRUMP: But they go on strike.

They - - I won't mention the name of the company, but they go on strike and you say, that's OK, you're all gone.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: After the comments, United Auto Workers filed federal labor charges against both Trump and Musk.

As for the independent candidate in the race, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will not be on the ballot in New York.

A judge ruled he falsely claimed residency in the state, despite living in California.

WOMAN: Voting for Reproductive Freedom for All.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And a major change to the ballot in Arizona and Missouri.

Voters will decide whether to enshrine a right to abortion in their state constitutions, two of eight states so far presenting the issue to voters in November, all this as Connecticut, Minnesota, Vermont and Wisconsin held their primaries today, voters heading to the polls for a say in key congressional races, including Minnesota Representative Ilhan Omar, the latest progressive Squad member fighting a challenge to her seat.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Laura Barron-Lopez.

AMNA NAWAZ: We start the day's other headlines in the Middle East.

Iran has rejected a call from European leaders to refrain from retaliatory strikes on Israel, calling it a -- quote -- "excessive request."

The region is bracing for such an attack following the death last month of Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran, which Iran blames on Israel.

In Washington today, a State Department spokesperson said that -- quote -- "No one benefits from any kind of retaliation," adding that all parties should exercise restraint.

VEDANT PATEL, Principal Deputy State Department Spokesperson: Everyone in the region should understand that further attacks only perpetuate conflict, instability and insecurity for everyone.

And so what we're focused on is intensively on de-escalation through diplomacy.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the meantime, the U.S. has approved the sale of $20 billion worth of arms to Israel, including fighter jets and advanced air-to-air missiles.

But the weapons are not expected to get to Israel any time soon, as they're tied up in contracts that can take years to fulfill.

Ukraine's army chief says his troops have won control of another 15 square miles of Russian territory in just the past day.

Ukraine now claims to control 74 communities in the Kursk region following last week's surprise incursion.

But Russia says it's fighting back, releasing this unverified video of an alleged counteroffensive to stop Ukraine's advances.

Ukraine's largest cross-border raid since the war began has forced tens of thousands of people to evacuate the area.

In Kyiv, a Foreign Ministry official stressed that the goal of the operation is not occupation.

HEORHII TYKHYI, Ukrainian Foreign Ministry Spokesman (through translator): Unlike Russia, Ukraine does not need other people's property.

Ukraine is not interested in taking the territory of the Kursk region.

AMNA NAWAZ: He goes on to say that Ukraine's offensive is instead aimed at preventing Russia from carrying out long-range strikes launched from the Kursk region back into Ukraine.

Tropical Storm Ernesto lashed the Northeast Caribbean today with heavy rain and wind.

It's now expected to head north of Puerto Rico, where officials have closed schools and activated the National Guard.

Forecasters are warning of up to eight inches of rain there with possible flooding and landslides.

Ernesto is the fifth named storm of this year's Atlantic hurricane season.

It's predicted to gain hurricane strength early tomorrow, but is not currently on track to hit the Southeastern U.S. A grand jury in Ohio indicted police officer Connor Grubb today on charges including murder in the death of a 21-year-old pregnant Black woman.

Grubb and another officer approached Ta'Kiya Young's car in a store parking lot last August after she was suspected of shoplifting.

The other officer ordered her to exit the car.

Instead, Young rolled her vehicle forward and Grubb fired one bullet through the windshield, hitting her in the chest and killing her.

Young's unborn daughter also died.

Grubb is due to be arraigned in court tomorrow.

A former Kansas police chief who led a raid last year on a weekly newspaper has been charged with felony obstruction of justice.

The single charge against Gideon Cody relates to accusations that he asked a business owner who was a potential witness to delete texts between them.

Cody justified the raid on Marion County Record by saying police were investigating whether the paper committed identity theft and illegally accessed information in reporting a story.

It sparked national outrage as an assault on press freedom.

Prosecutors later concluded no crime was ever committed by the paper's publisher or staff.

On Wall Street today, stocks jumped after a report on producer prices fueled hopes for a rate cut next month.

The Dow Jones industrial average added more than 400 points on the day.

The Nasdaq rose more than 400 points as well, or nearly 2.5 percent.

The S&P 500 also saw strong gains.

Still to come on the "News Hour": former President Trump raises the idea of taking a heavier hand with the traditionally independent Federal Reserve; a bipartisan effort identifies how lawyers can help preserve American democracy; and a former military fort turned art center celebrates 50 years of bringing people together through creativity.

GEOFF BENNETT: The top United Nations human rights official today criticized Venezuelan authorities for what he called arbitrary detentions and disproportionate use of force more than two weeks after elections that the opposition says it won.

In a moment, Nick Schifrin speaks with the main opposition leader who was blocked before the vote from running.

But, first, he has a look at president Nicolas Maduro's crackdown and the opposition's resistance.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In downtown Caracas, they light candles to demand democracy, but also memorialize what they called their lost freedom and the regime's opponents who have been disappeared since they demanded President Nicolas Maduro step down for allegedly stealing last month's election.

The government calls the crackdown on its critics Operation Knock-Knock.

Police officers armed with guns and videos of protesters have arrested more than 2,000 and launched a social media campaign with music, even Christmas jingles, showing off police detaining what the government calls criminal terrorists.

NICOLAS MADURO, Venezuelan President (through translator): I tell you, people of Venezuela, they tried to rob electoral centers.

I have asked the attorney general to have an iron fist with terrorists, with opposition protesters, with violent people.

We will not allow them to create a spiral of violence.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Opposition leader Edmundo Gonzalez is in hiding, posting videos online, but, last month, with his political patron, Maria Corina Machado, showed proof he more than doubled Maduro's votes.

EDMUNDO GONZALEZ, Venezuela Opposition Presidential Candidate (through translator): We have in our hands the tallies that demonstrate our categorical and mathematically irreversible victory.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Maduro and his allies on the Electoral Council say he won with 51 percent, but have refused to publish the vote breakdown.

Over 11 years, Maduro's authoritarian rule has led to economic collapse, diplomatic isolation in the exodus of nearly eight million Venezuelans.

The U.S. is hoping diplomacy can force a democratic transition.

VEDANT PATEL, Principal Deputy State Department Spokesperson: The U.S., along with other international partners, including countries like Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, have called for transparency and called for the release of detailed vote tallies.

And we urge Venezuelan parties to begin discussions to a peaceful transition back to democratic norms.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And to discuss this pivotal political crisis in Venezuela, I'm joined by opposition leader Maria Corina Machado.

She joins us from an undisclosed location.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to the "News Hour."

Let's talk about this crackdown that we just highlighted that Maduro and his regime has launched; 2,400 have been arrested.

Rights groups say two dozen killed.

How brutal has it been?

And are those numbers actually even higher?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO, Venezuela Opposition Leader: It has been brutal.

It is happening as we speak.

We have hundreds of members of our teams that are actually in hiding.

The regime has even got to their homes and marked their homes, their doors.

They have taken monitors that worked as volunteers.

And if they don't find them, they have even taken their family or members of their family so that they will hand out to the regime.

So we are now very concerned because we are preparing for a huge mobilization this next Saturday around the world and in Venezuela.

And we expect the regime once again to try to crack down on peaceful protesters.

NICK SCHIFRIN: What do you believe is the threat to you personally?

The attorney general, a longtime Maduro ally, has announced a criminal probe against you.

Maduro himself said you should spend 30 years behind bars.

What's the threat to you?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Maduro said a couple of days ago I'm a terrorist.

The regime knows that the defeat they suffered was huge.

The world knows that Venezuelan people voted for change, and we have the proofs.

And at this point, the only thing Maduro has done is use violence and be surrounded by the top ranks of the military.

But this is not sustainable.

We will not surrender.

We will not give up.

And we ask for the democratic world to accompany the Venezuelan people on this struggle for freedom.

NICK SCHIFRIN: We have talked about that call on Saturday that you just made for a large protest.

What are you hoping to achieve?

And why do you think the protests so far haven't been bigger?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, the protests have been huge.

But the thing is that repression has been, as I say, cruel.

And we need to administer this people power in moments in which a lot of people can come together and they are safe.

And that's how we are designing the Saturday event.

We're calling people to come with their children, grandchildren, their parents.

It will take place in over 120 cities around the world and in tens of cities inside Venezuela.

It is a moment in which we all will get together, not only the Venezuelan people and the Latin community, but also Americans, Europeans, people that understand how important, critical it is to solve the conflict in Venezuela.

We have never had so much strength as we have right now.

And in 25 years, the regime has never been so weak as it is right now.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Do you believe that large protest is the best way to pressure Maduro?

And what role is Gonzalez playing?

I have been told that the opposition in general is not unified.

Is it?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, it is absolutely unified, not only the position of our country.

That narrative the regime used to put in place that this is a polarized country, that is not true.

Over 70 percent of our people wanted Edmundo to be president and voted for him, even though large millions of Venezuelans were allowed to do it inside and abroad.

And now we are all coming together, not only to support Edmundo Gonzalez, but to defend the values that have brought the Venezuelan society in this huge and profound social movement that goes beyond ideological ideas.

This is a spiritual struggle that has brought all the base of society together at this point.

We need certain internal pressure, but also the international community supporting us and make Maduro understand, as I said before, that his best option is to accept a negotiation with us.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Let me ask about U.S. policy, therefore.

The U.S. has echoed what you just talked about, a negotiated transition.

It is working with allies and partners in the region, and it is not so far imposing penalties on Maduro or his deputies, including reimposing sanctions, introducing new sanctions perhaps.

Do you support the U.S. approach so far?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: I am very grateful for the support we have received from the Biden administration and from both parties in Congress.

Fortunately, Venezuela has been -- Venezuelan cause for democracy a bipartisan cause because it is well understood that it is the main issue in terms of national security.

I mean, Venezuela right now is the biggest migration crisis in the world.

And if Maduro stays by force, you will see in a very short period of time, three, four, five million Venezuelans fleeing our country, many reaching the U.S. border.

And that's not what we want.

We want those that have already left come back.

So it is a moment in which we have to understand that Maduro has to be pushed.

It's not only offering him benefits from leaving power, but it's also making it costlier for the regime to stay in power.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Let me ask you explicitly then, should the U.S. be reimposing some oil sanctions, and should the U.S. impose new sanctions on the people that you have identified have stolen this election?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: I think there are a wide variety of actions that the different countries, not only the U.S., can put in place, certainly, some of them directed to those who have committed crimes against humanity.

Just yesterday, the U.N. fact-finding mission said that there is a pattern for crimes against humanity in the actions that have taken place in the last two weeks.

This is brutal.

So, it has to be stopped.

And the real incentives have to be put on the table.

And Maduro has to understand that he will -- he cannot keep on doing what he is doing right now.

We are doing our part, and we will.

Our movement is a peaceful civic movement, but it is not weak on the country.

It's gaining strength because people will not surrender.

NICK SCHIFRIN: You mentioned incentives.

Should the U.S. explicitly offer Maduro and some of his allies, many of whom have been indicted by the Department of Justice in the U.S., relief from those indictments or safe passage for their leaving Venezuela?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: There are different options, and all of those should be addressed at a negotiation process that has to be done seriously and with the -- with a clear objective, which is a transition to democracy.

In the past, the regime has participated in several dialogues, and they have never complied with their commitments.

This time is going to be different.

Maduro has lost completely its legitimacy.

Everybody knows that -- inside and abroad that this is the most grotesque fraud in the history of this hemisphere.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Maria Corina Machado, thank you very much.

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Thank you, Nick.

AMNA NAWAZ: In Greece, authorities say lighter winds today helped crews tame a wildfire that came within miles of the center of Athens.

The blaze killed at least one person and forced multiple evacuations across the city's suburbs.

Residents returned today to find their homes reduced to ash, and as winds picked back up this afternoon, the region is again on high alert.

Sangita Lal of Independent Television News reports.

SANGITA LAL: The roots are still burning beneath the soil here, even though the inferno has passed.

There is a constant threat this earth could ignite again and cause even more damage.

There's little to salvage for families who return today and little comfort for Thanissus (ph), who used to work in this factory.

He came back to pay tribute to his friend, 62-year-old Nadia (ph), who was trapped inside as the wildfires engulfed the building.

He'd known her for 25 years.

"The last time I spoke to her was yesterday at 3:00," Thanissus tells me, "and she told me we were burning, we're on fire."

He says: "There was a fire.

I don't know if she came out or not.

Then at night, I learned she died."

The owner of this house only bought it last year, but nothing in this suburb could escape the flames.

Not even the metal in this car could stand the heat.

ANGELOS, Local Resident: We don't have the forest anymore.

SANGITA LAL: Angelos says he lived here for more than 40 years.

He says the smoke was so thick, he couldn't see the flames were so close.

ANGELOS: It traveled so fast, like, every second 20 meters, new fire here, new fire there, new fire there.

In five minutes -- in five seconds - - sorry -- I think it took a distance of like 100 meters.

Now the whole north part of (INAUDIBLE) Attica is totally burned again.

SANGITA LAL: Is this what you're worried about?

ANGELOS: This is what I'm worried about.

SANGITA LAL: This wind.

ANGELOS: Now it starts again and the whole thing here, I don't know what will happen.

SANGITA LAL: Forty-mile-an-hour gusts of forecast over the next few days and firefighters are racing to extinguish the terrain that's become a tinderbox after prolonged drought and Greece's hottest June and July on record.

Well, crews have just arrived here to soak smoldering land and going back over houses that were saved from the fires yesterday.

We have heard them on the radio asking for more fire engines to turn up because they need more water.

The reason they are here is because of the high winds later.

If they don't soak these houses, if they don't soak the land, they could catch fire again.

The skies over Athens have cleared, but the risk remains in a country used to tackling wildfires, but never so close to the center of Greece's capital, with concerns now this could become the new reality here.

AMNA NAWAZ: That report from Sangita Lal of Independent Television News.

More than two years ago, the Supreme Court struck down a century-old law in New York state restricting who could carry a concealed gun.

The landmark ruling was seen by Second Amendment supporters as a huge victory and by some gun control advocates as opening the door to violent chaos on the streets of New York.

Special correspondent Christopher Booker reports on what has and notably what hasn't changed since then.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: For 25 years, John DeLoca has owned Seneca Sporting Range and Gun Store in New York City, a city with some of the strictest gun laws in the entire country.

How hard would you say it is to own a gun in New York City?

JOHN DELOCA, Owner, Seneca Sporting Range and Gun Store: Very hard.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: For almost all of DeLoca's four-plus decades in the gun business, to carry a concealed firearm in the city, you either had to be a cop or show -- quote -- "proper cause," a provision of a gun control law from 1913.

JOHN DELOCA: Proper cause was all about money.

You had to have a check cashing business.

Could be a gun dealer, be a diamond dealer, a 24-hour gas station.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: But, in June of 2022, all that changed.

In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court struck down New York's law, ruling the restriction violated the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms.

GOV.

KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): Shocking, absolutely shocking.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: The reaction from officials like New York Governor Kathy Hochul was immediate.

GOV.

KATHY HOCHUL: Today, the Supreme Court is sending us backwards in our efforts to protect families, to prevent gun violence.

This could place millions of New Yorkers in harm's way.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: But, for DeLoca, who goes by the nickname Johnny Guns, the Supreme Court's decision in Bruen, as the case is known, has meant a huge shift in who can get a concealed carry permit in New York.

JOHN DELOCA: It was every -- floodgates opened up.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: Including for New Yorkers like Michael Schiavone.

MICHAEL SCHIAVONE, Gun Owner: I applied for it recently due to the change in the law, and, honestly, to take advantage of my constitutional right.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: But even after the Supreme Court's decision, getting a concealed carry permit remains a complex and lengthy process.

Just eight days after Bruen, New York state passed the Concealed Carry Improvement Act, maintaining the state's extensive background check, asking for character references to determine good moral character, while requiring applicants attend 18 hours of firearm training.

DeLoca, who offers these classes, thinks it's an important safeguard.

JOHN DELOCA: I just feel also that there's a correlation between stupid people and guns.

Even though we put 20 people in a class only, and we have a lawyer, and we -- safety, safety, safety, you can't sink it in enough with these people.

You can't.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: It sounds like you are in favor of the heavy restrictions that are in place that allow or don't allow someone to get a permit for a gun.

JOHN DELOCA: Definitely, without a doubt.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: In response to the Bruen decision, New York state also restricted where you could carry a gun even if you have a permit.

So-called sensitive locations like bars, the subway, and public spaces like here in Times Square remain gun-free.

PETER TILEM, Attorney: They said, you know what?

If we're going to be required to let people carry guns, we're going to make it so that there's no place they can carry them.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: Peter Tilem is an attorney leading one of the many legal challenges against gun restrictions in New York.

PETER TILEM: Until this is acknowledged as a constitutional right, I mean, acknowledged in their gut, then they're going to keep trying to interfere with people's ability to possess guns.

Is there another right that you can think of that you can't exercise until you get permission from the government?

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: Tilem argues that the restrictions imposed by New York state in the wake of Bruen misses the bigger issue, curbing illegal guns.

PETER TILEM: The Concealed Carry Improvement Act, the target is licensed gun owners, people who go through the trouble, go through the 18-month period, pay the fee and are clearly law-abiding citizens.

And now we're going to target them with felony convictions if they carried into the wrong place.

So, clearly, New York is missing the point.

ERIC GONZALEZ, Brooklyn, New York, District Attorney: These efforts to get these guns out of homes are going to save lives.

They're going to prevent crimes.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: Brooklyn district attorney Eric Gonzalez says the city has long been battling a steady flow of illegal weapons coming from states with more relaxed gun laws, as evident at a voluntary buyback that collected nearly 100 illegal guns.

ERIC GONZALEZ: Seventy percent of the guns recovered in Brooklyn after crime basically come from three or four Southern states.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: Seventy percent?

ERIC GONZALEZ: Seventy percent.

And they continue to come.

So these buybacks allow us also to kind of understand how guns are moving in our city.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: After the Bruen ruling, Gonzalez was one of many city leaders who argued the decision would make New York City less safe, calling it -- quote - - "a nightmare for public safety."

Do you still feel that way?

ERIC GONZALEZ: I'm still concerned.

You know, the density of the city, you know, we're not spread out.

We're vertical.

You know, you don't want people pulling out a firearm to start shooting it out because they see a crime in progress.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: But the two years since Bruen has also coincided with decreases in violent crime, including a 19 percent decline in murder and a 31 percent decline in shooting incidents.

ERIC GONZALEZ: I really hope that the Supreme Court understands that states have to be able to regulate this in their own jurisdictions.

If we continue to just say, yes, anyone can carry, we're going to see an uptick.

MICHAEL SCHIAVONE: Stupid just gets stupider.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: Back in Queens, concealed permit holder Michael Schiavone says, despite the drop in crime, he's still concerned.

MICHAEL SCHIAVONE: There's tons of guns on the street.

We are faced with people having illegal firearms, and they are all over the place.

So that puts the citizens in a very bad situation.

Especially in the subway system, in those areas where someone might want to take a firearm, we now cannot do that.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: In June, the Supreme Court did rule in another gun case affirming that an individual who poses a threat can be disarmed.

But attorney Peter Tilem, whose lawsuit is one of more than 450 filed since Bruen, believes the Supreme Court will have to weigh in again.

PETER TILEM: I don't think we understand the full import of Bruen yet.

It's going to affect every aspect of daily life.

And so I think that the contours of the Second Amendment are going to be written more completely in the next five to 10 years.

CHRISTOPHER BOOKER: In the meantime, cities like New York are left to navigate the ambiguity that exists between efforts to keep their streets safe and the Second Amendment.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Christopher Booker in New York City.

GEOFF BENNETT: Former President Donald Trump says he wants a more direct role in how the Federal Reserve sets interest rates and suggests that he could break with traditional policies when it comes to the Fed's independence.

Trump has been critical of Fed Chair Jerome Powell, dating back to his own presidency because of Powell's approach to interest rates.

And during his press event at Mar-a-Lago last week, Mr. Trump made it clear he wants a change.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: I feel the president should have at least say in there.

Yes, I feel that strongly.

I think that, in my case, I made a lot of money.

I was very successful.

And I think I have a better instinct than, in many cases, people that would be on the Federal Reserve or the chairman.

GEOFF BENNETT: Meantime, Vice President Kamala Harris told reporters this weekend she couldn't disagree more strongly.

KAMALA HARRIS, Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate: The Fed is an independent entity.

And, as president, I would never interfere in the decisions that the Fed makes.

GEOFF BENNETT: Powell's tenure as Fed chair does not end until May 2026, and that begs the question, what could President Trump try to do if he is reelected, and what impact might that have?

We get some insight now from Krishna Guha, vice chairman of Evercore ISI and former executive vice president at the New York Fed.

Thanks for being with us.

KRISHNA GUHA, Former Executive Vice President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York: Any time.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, first, let's start with a bit of a reality check.

How feasible is it for Donald Trump to fundamentally change the autonomy of the Fed and change the relationship between the Federal Reserve and the president if he is reelected?

KRISHNA GUHA: Well, it's complicated.

So, first off, for President Trump, if reelected, could certainly let his views on monetary policy be known loudly and including through social media and other nonconventional channels.

He could try to do what's called jawboning, leaning on the Fed in public to take certain actions on interest rates.

Actually changing the institutional independence of the Fed, that's more challenging.

The Fed's independence is enshrined in the act of Congress the Federal Reserve Act, and that makes the chairman, for instance, removable as generally understood, only for a cause, which would mean something pretty extreme to make him unfit for office.

The president can't simply appoint additional members to the Federal Reserve Board.

He'd have to wait until vacancies became available and those only become available very slowly.

So it would be tough.

Now, there is one complication, and that is that it is somewhat unsettled as to what the exact legal status of the Fed chair is and whether the president might have some legal grounds for being able to dismiss a Fed chair.

That's not something that I think any mainstream lawyer or central banker believes is right, but it hasn't been fully tested in the courts.

And so there's some outside possibility that the president could attempt to assert an authority over the Fed chair that has not been understood to be there.

GEOFF BENNETT: If we look to other countries or look back in this country's own history, what does it tell us?

Does a Central Bank that remains independent from political influence, does that yield better monetary policy and better macroeconomic decision-making?

KRISHNA GUHA: There's just very, very strong evidence from the U.S. itself and from countries around the world that independent central banks tend to achieve better economic outcomes.

And that ultimately doesn't just benefit society, doesn't just benefit the economy.

It, in the end, tends to benefit the president as well.

And so I think there's actually a lot of good reason why it would be not to try to assault the independence of the Central Bank.

GEOFF BENNETT: Critics have blasted the Fed for being too slow to respond to inflation.

And there will certainly be folks who say, why is it such a bad thing to have the Fed accountable to someone, accountable to the executive branch?

KRISHNA GUHA: So, you raise a really important issue there, Fed accountability.

Now, Fed officials past and present will say, absolutely, the Fed must be accountable.

But under our system of government, the Fed is accountable to Congress, not the executive branch.

The Fed is a creature of Congress.

The Fed chair goes to Congress to testify.

He's grilled by members of the Senate.

He's grilled by members of the House.

That is the way that our system of accountability is set up.

And it's the way that it's worked very well in recent decades.

That doesn't mean that the Fed is always going to get everything right.

Of course not.

The issue is simply, would you have more confidence that the Fed would get things about right most of the time if it was more insulated from short-term political pressures, or do you think that political pressures are going to make them do a better job?

I think most people have a pretty intuitive grasp of what the answer to that question would be.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, I will put that question to you.

I mean, would the Fed do a better job with it was more susceptible to political pressure?

KRISHNA GUHA: Absolutely not.

But, if I may, I'd like to explain why.

So the public knows that politicians in general, most of the time, like low interest rates.

They want interest rates to be low because that will support growth, it'll support jobs, it'll make them popular because people's borrowing costs are low.

And they probably will be happy with that, even if it meant a bit more inflation, particularly if they have got a lot of debt, because you can inflate some of that debt away.

So if you have a Central Bank that looks like it's losing its independence, people start to wonder, will we get a little bit more inflation over time?

And when they start to think that way, they start to think, well, maybe I should put up my own prices a bit more.

Maybe I should ask for a bigger raise on my wages.

And those type of pressures actually make inflation itself tend to go upwards.

So, to deal with that, the Central Bank, if it is able to take action, can just say, OK, well, then we will move rates up further to try to keep things under control.

But you end up with a worse combination of inflation and interest rates than if you just leave the Central Bank alone, and people can trust it to do its best effort at getting the job right without bending to political pressure.

GEOFF BENNETT: Krishna Guha, thanks so much for adding some much-needed context to this issue.

We appreciate it.

KRISHNA GUHA: Any time.

Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: A task force from the American Bar Association is urging attorneys to defend democracy against authoritarianism in the country.

In a statement, members of the task force urged attorneys to -- quote -- "answer the clarion call to defend America's constitutional democracy and the rule of law" by getting involved in election efforts.

Joining me now to discuss the task force's work are its co-chairs, Jeh Johnson, former secretary of homeland security under President Obama, and J. Michael Luttig, a former appeals court judge and one of the nation's leading conservative legal voices.

We should note, by the way, that our own Judy Woodruff is a member of this task force.

Gentlemen, welcome to you both.

Secretary Johnson, you have likened this effort to doctors on the front lines responding to the deadly COVID-19 pandemic.

Why the urgency behind this call to lawyers?

JEH JOHNSON, Former U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security: Democracy is at stake.

We saw in 2016, 2017 how fragile our constitutional norms can be if there are those who are determined to try to push the envelope to the breaking point.

That environment continues.

There is nothing to suggest that the threat stream from the challenges to our democracy have at all dissipated.

Lawyers are uniquely situated, because of our legal training, the oath we take to support and defend the Constitution, and our ability to resolve conflict and mediate conflict.

We're in a unique situation to help voters, to help Americans participate in the democracy, encourage participation in the democracy, and try, most importantly, in my judgment, to turn down the rhetoric, the overheated rhetoric.

We're concerned about the rise of political violence in this country, which is strictly bipartisan.

And the two are related, the rhetoric and the rise in political violence.

So we're issuing this call to lawyers.

We believe the urgency is the same as it was for the medical community during COVID.

AMNA NAWAZ: Judge Luttig, what's your take on this?

Why lawyers in particular?

And what role do you think they can play in, as Secretary Johnson says, defending democracy here?

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG, Former Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Judge: Amna, for reasons that we all know all too well, America's democracy has been teetering on a knife's edge since January 6, 2021.

For the past three-and-a-half years, the former president and now the Republican Party itself have continued to deny January 6, to attempt to justify it, and even to glorify January 6, 2021.

As a consequence of the former president's obsession over January 6 that continues to this day, American democracy has been corrupted.

That's why I believe that this election coming up is a test of America's commitment to its own democracy and to the rule of law.

Lawyers, the 1.3 million lawyers in America, are uniquely qualified and they are uniquely obligated by their professional oath to support and defend America's democracy in this time of need.

The primary tasks between now and Election Day are to ensure the integrity of America's elections in November of 2024.

And part of that, if not the biggest part, is to protect the safety of the election workers across America.

As we all know, in 2016, many of those election workers were threatened, threatened even with their lives.

And, regrettably, those threats continue to this day.

And it's all a consequence of the former president's effort in 2021 to overturn the presidential election.

AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary Johnson, Judge Luttig mentions him here by name, the former President Donald Trump, but he's not mentioned in your report or in the statement accompanying it, nor are any of the attorneys who helped to push that election lie and tried to push cases through the courts that were based on no evidence of any kind of election fraud that includes people like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell and John Eastman, Kenneth Chesebro.

Why not name them if they are behind what you identify as the specific threats here?

JEH JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I give Judge Luttig a lot of credit.

He does call it like he sees it by name.

The ABA is, of course, a nonpartisan organization.

And I know Judge Luttig and I both consider this to be a strictly nonpartisan effort.

There are Republicans and Democrats on our task force.

And the point we keep stressing is that democracy and the rule of law is not a politically partisan issue, nor should it be regarded as such.

And so we want to be able to talk to both Republicans and Democrats in this appeal to stand up for the rule of law and to stand up for democratic principles.

AMNA NAWAZ: Judge Luttig, we have already heard from former President Trump, also from his running mate, Senator Vance, several Republicans as well, a refusal to commit to respecting the results of the 2024 election, saying they will do so only if it's fair, and, essentially, many people believe laying groundwork to challenge the results if they lose.

If they once again move forward with allegations of election fraud that are based on no kind of evidence, what can you and this task force do, if anything?

What are you calling upon lawyers to do in that case?

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: Amna, as you rightly point out, the peaceful transfer of power in the United States of America and even the commitment of presidential candidates and the two parties are fundamental tenets of this republic.

It is unbelievable that the former president and now the Republican Party refuses to commit to accept the will and the vote of the American people.

That's exactly what led to January 6, 2021.

And as you just pointed out, that is what former president and Republican supporters are promising to do again in November of 2024.

AMNA NAWAZ: And in case that does happen, Judge Luttig, what can the task force do?

Is there anything can to be done at that point?

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: Well, the task force, of course, is leveraging the 1.3 million lawyers across the country in the 50 states.

And those lawyers within each individual state are preparing for just that kind of effort.

In other words, we will be prepared this year, whereas we were not prepared in 2021.

AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary Johnson, if a similar effort is undertaken by former President Trump, how confident are you that the legal system will hold this time around?

JEH JOHNSON: Well, we're smarter now.

We know that there is gray in our Constitution, in our constitutional framework.

We know that, because of the Electoral College, national elections do dance on the head of a pin.

And we have learned that, at the state level, election officials, state legislatures might try to overturn the will of the voters in their respective states.

And with that learning, with that experience, we're calling on lawyers to focus on that fragile, critical point in our process and be smart, be ready, be educated, be on the alert, be in a position to advise election officials of what the authority is that they have and they don't have.

AMNA NAWAZ: Judge Luttig, what about you?

What's your confidence level that the system will hold?

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: I don't believe that the system actually held in the last election, Amna.

I am more encouraged that it will hold in this election.

But I don't believe that we are ready for this election yet.

That's why I believe the next several months are absolutely critical if America is going to avoid another January 6.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is retired Judge J. Michael Luttig and former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson joining us tonight.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time.

We really appreciate it.

JEH JOHNSON: Thank you.

Thank you.

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG: Thank you, Amna.

GEOFF BENNETT: A former military base on the shores of Puget Sound is home to artists, from amateur to professional, who have come together for the past 50 years to celebrate their craft and learn together.

Special correspondent Cat Wise paid a visit for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

CAT WISE: On a sunny summer afternoon, lines began to form on the grounds of Fort Worden State Park in Port Townsend, Washington.

At 4:00 p.m. sharp, check-in began for Fiddle Tunes, a weeklong program celebrating diverse styles of fiddle music, with workshops, band labs, dances and more.

Many of this year's 600 participants, from locals to those who traveled in from around the country and overseas, have been returning year after year since the program began in the late 1970s.

On opening day, old friends reconnected and started to jam.

Fiddle Tunes is one of more than 250 art events put on each year by the nonprofit Centrum Foundation.

ROBERT BIRMAN, Executive Director, Centrum Foundation: What we say here is that we're really about immersive experiences in the arts.

CAT WISE: Robert Birman is the organization's executive director.

Founded in 1973 by Washington state and partner agencies, Birman says the goal was to create a thriving center for the arts and lifelong learning.

The World War I era former military fort at the entrance to Puget Sound, largely empty at the time, provided an ideal home.

ROBERT BIRMAN: The students that come here range from age 4 to 98, but it's a residential experience.

They're in community for an entire week and they live and they learn and they eat together.

It's about personal growth and learning, and we try to share skills and pass culture and tradition from one generation to the next.

CAT WISE: This year marks Centrum's 50th anniversary of year-round programs, which include exhibits, concerts, artist residencies and educational programs for migrant youth and others.

ROBERT BIRMAN: What they learn when they come here is to take risks and they discover that they are capable of things they never would have tried otherwise.

CAT WISE: Over the years, acclaimed artists have served on the faculty, including author Margaret Atwood and vocalist and musician Rhiannon Giddens.

Others, like jazz vocalist and pianist Diana Krall, got their start at Centrum.

(SINGING) CAT WISE: Tuition costs about $600.

Optional meals and housing are another $600.

Last year, 224 scholarships were given out.

GARY COPELAND LILLEY, Artistic Director, Centrum Writers Conference: I think there's a whole lot of writers now that I would really like to find scholarships for.

CAT WISE: Poet Gary Copeland Lilley is the artistic director of Centrum's Writers Conference.

We spoke at one of the other nonprofits based at Fort Worden, Copper Canyon Press, which has published over 400 books of poetry.

This is one of your favorites?

GARY COPELAND LILLEY: Yes.

CAT WISE: Including one of Copeland Lilley's.

He says what sets the writing workshop apart from other programs is a focus on craft and community.

GARY COPELAND LILLEY: Here, it's only about the writing.

We just love what we do and stuff.

And we love being around each other.

I mean, it's the most noncompetitive writers group I have ever been around.

CAT WISE: There is a similar vibe during Fiddle Tunes week, where love for the toe-tapping art form that's drawn people together for hundreds of years is spreading to younger generations.

Sami Braman, Riley Calcagno, Leo Shannon, and Vivian Leva are close friends who perform together in a band called The Onlies.

Sami, Riley, and Leo, who grew up in Seattle, have been coming to Fiddle Tunes since they were kids.

Last year, the four were selected by Centrum for a big role, artistic directors.

I met up with Sami during a break in her busy schedule, helping coordinate the week's events.

SAMI BRAMAN, Co-Artistic Director, Centrum Fiddle Tunes: It was like, at first, I was in total shock.

I was like, there's no way they would give us this job.

Like, we're just... CAT WISE: Why?

SAMI BRAMAN: Well, because we're young.

We're in our 20s.

We have never had a job like this before.

We have played a lot of music.

We have toured around a lot.

And so by virtue of that, we have met a lot of people.

The artistic directors in the past and something that we're trying to carry forward is bringing people to Fiddle Tunes who are tradition bearers and who have a lot of wisdom and life experience and music experience.

CAT WISE: One of those soaking up the traditions of Fiddle Tunes, 9-year-old Lydia Brown.

She lives in Port Townsend and came with her mother, sisters, and a neighbor who also loves to play.

LYDIA BROWN, Fiddle Tunes Participant: When I play, like, fast fiddle music, that's, like, I'm, like, happy.

It makes me feel kind of joyful.

CAT WISE: Lydia's mom, Starla Crowell, agrees.

STARLA CROWELL, Fiddle Tunes Participant: I felt like I was going to camp, and I haven't had that feeling since I was a kid.

And so it's really fun as an adult to have like-minded people that are -- even though you're from different sides of all kinds of issues, like, you can all get together and play some music together and have a good time.

CAT WISE: Robert Birman says those connections are a big reason why people keep coming back.

ROBERT BIRMAN: The best thing of all is, this multigenerational programming teaches young and old to respect and listen to one another in ways that in their normal world you don't encounter very often.

CAT WISE: Centrum is closing out its 50th year looking to the future.

A fund-raising campaign is under way to help refurbish Fort Worden's aging buildings.

For the PBS "News Hour," I'm Cat Wise in Port Townsend, Washington.

GEOFF BENNETT: As always, there is much more online.

And join us again here tomorrow night, as Judy Woodruff speaks with J.P. Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon about the state of the U.S. economy and much more.

That is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On behalf of the entire "News Hour" team, thank you for joining us.